A slightly unusual tale.
Here's a photo borrowed from the late Clive Smithers' blog. It is one of a set of pictures he took at my house in June 2010. He brought a stack of his own soldiers with him, and we fought a Peninsular Battle here, using a hex board and my own rules (this was pre-Commands & Colors).
In the right foreground you will see two units of [Hinton Hunt] Portuguese (blue uniforms, dark green bases). They are mounted on borrowed sabots, which adds to the confusion a little, but they were part of Clive's visiting army, and he thought it was a nice touch to bring these particular soldiers on a visit, since he had obtained them from me about 5 years earlier, in a swap deal.
In 2005 I had been in the process of replacing my Portuguese troops with more modern 20mm castings, so the Hinton Hunt boys became surplus to requirements, and Clive was keen to get hold of them. At the time, I had a brief twinge of megalomania, and quite fancied the idea of hanging onto them, so that I would have extra Portuguese [you can never have too many Portuguese]. Anyway, I thought better of it, and happily passed them on. The swap took place in the cafe of the Brocksbushes farm shop, near Corbridge, I recall, accompanied by pie and chips. Clive subsequently rebased the Portuguese and added in a few other castings he had already.
I was pleasantly surprised to meet them again briefly when he brought them on his visit five years later, and then I subsequently forgot all about them.
Until a couple of weeks ago, when I saw them on eBay. My old hand-drawn flags are just as awful as they were all those years ago, and instantly recognisable. The seller had obviously bought them from the recent auctions of Clive's collections. After some pondering, I made an offer for them, and was surprised to be successful. They have now reached me safely, I have removed them from Clive's replacement bases, and am now thinking what I might do with them. I could put them back into the front line, in which case my new house standards will require some extra command figures and a change of facing colours, or else I could use them as siege troops, in which case they are fine as they are.
In the meantime, I have to say that they are exactly as they were in 2005, and I shall put them safely in a storage box while I decide what to do. In another context, could this be construed as "getting my own back"? I am pleased to have them, though the circumstances are very sad.
Brilliant!
ReplyDelete🙂
DeleteAnother title for this post might be "What goes around, comes around"!
ReplyDeleteThat's right - where next, eh?
DeleteSadly, a lot of the buyers on that auction seemed to predominantly be traders in search of profits, rather than enthusiasts. I saw several lots on eBay shortly after the auction that had clearly come from his collection.
ReplyDeleteThe bids made reflected this and most were way above what I was prepared to pay. Much to my surprise I did win one lot with plastic AWI Spencer Smiths, probably because the photos were so poor. A lot of the lots were odd bundles of items.
It did make me wonder what will happen with my stuff. There were obviously a few unfinished projects.
Neil
I believe the initial scrutiny and sorting were done by Caliver, who seem to have had first dibs on some of the items (Granny Ogg?). It was a huge collection, so it was always going to be difficult, but what I saw of the online auction catalogue suggested that the lots were sorted pretty roughly, and the photos were negligible. Judging by the eBay examples I've seen, there is no big money being made on resale, considering the amount of hassle and the eBay charges in doing the selling, so I am really just glad that Clive's family got some money for them. It is, in any case, a weird market, since most of the potential buyers are old guys and are also dying off, these days!
DeleteWell done. Many happy returns of the Portuguese.
ReplyDeleteThanks Chris.
DeleteBrilliant tale and really quite nice they’ve found their way back to you. Whilst that has never happened to me some of my colleagues didn’t realise but they bought some of my old Persians at a bring and buy in Sheffield some years ago, almost 10 years after I’d sold the army to a chap down South. When I saw the figures I doubt I’d have bought them anyway 🤣
ReplyDeleteIn absolute terms, I have to say the advancing Portuguese infantryman was not one of Marcus Hinton's loveliest efforts (they appear to have wet themselves), so it is really the association that makes these attractive! In passing, Marcus was almost single-handedly responsible for perpetuating the myth that the Portuguese wore such tapered hats after 1811 - they did lose their shape with wear and soakings, but they were officially cylindrical. [That should start a fight...]
DeleteSad but satisfying, in a film script sort of way!
ReplyDeleteCheers,
David.
Not a dry eye in the house. Especially the skilled painters.
DeleteYou are hardly the first person I have known to have "boomerang" troops! Most of them, fortunately were b not a result of the death of an owner!
ReplyDeleteVery true Peter.
DeleteThe flags look good to me.
ReplyDeleteTrust me, they are pretty poor - pencil outlines and watercolour - shaky hands (poker-players' doom).
DeleteAn interesting story, sad circumstances as you say but great that they are back with you, they look lovely by the way.
ReplyDeleteThanks Donnie - I may still stick them on garrison duty, but am thinking it over!
DeleteSerendipity in full force.
ReplyDeleteI occasionally wonder if the same items simply move between parties continually without ever being played. Since I monitor hex-and-counter wargames much more closely than secondhand miniatures, I see this effect regularly. With each resale, the price tends to creep up a bit until the last buyer is left with an unsaleable, overpriced item. Caveat Emptor!
Without getting too personal about Clive, I think he was a pretty special case, in that he collected a lot of wargaming armies and equipment, but rarely, if ever, played any games with them. I was unaware of the hex-and-counters story, so that is particularly interesting.
DeleteWell that is a nice outcome, good for you. They do have a slightly odd pose - did the Portuguese perhaps have a unique marching style, like the goose-stepping guards at Lenin's tomb, etc?
ReplyDeleteIt is not my place to make any criticism (even unintentional) about Marcus - I have scars from previous indiscretions (though not as bad as the ire of Peter Gilder disciples). The Portuguese are nice enough figures, but I've never been quite sure what that charging pose signifies.
DeleteI saw them and considered putting in a bid - glad I didn't now and they managed to find their way back home where they belong.
ReplyDeleteI paid just a tad over the odds for them, but am not upset. They are now in a (new) freezer pack box which says "Clive's Portuguese". [I was never great on the imagination thing...]
DeleteGlad you got them back Tony! Now if you could just find the Hinton Hunt Prussian army I sold in 1976 that would be perfect...
ReplyDeleteAre you sure that Clive didn't have your Prussians? Not easy to tell from the auction catalogue. I've de-based and washed the fellows now, and placed them in a fresh freezer pack box, which I labelled "HH PORTUGUESE", but afterwards I went back to it, and it now says "CLIVE'S HH PORTUGUESE". Don't know why that seems a good thing to do, but I've done it.
DeleteProf De Vries [of Leiden] emailed to ask how long I had the figures before I passed them on in 2005, since they look "quite old fashioned". Good question - if I forgot to say this then I had intended to mention it. I bought the figures unpainted from Hinton Hunt in the early-to-mid 1970s, at a time when I was extending my initial 4-brigades-a-side organisation for the Peninsular War (to 5-a-side!), and they must have been painted and in service by about 1975 at the latest. I moved house (from Marchmont to Morningside, in Edinburgh) in 1975, so it would be useful if I could remember which house I painted them in. Sadly, of course, I can't remember. In those days I used to paint regiments glued side-by-side on a 3/4" strip of ramin.
ReplyDeleteIf I bought them in the early 1970s, the castings really are remarkably crisp, so I can only assume that Hinton's didn't sell very many Portuguese! I can assure you that my experience with ACW castings and my Waterloo Highlanders was a lot less positive, around the same period!
Oh - and in case anyone has missed this previously, my figures have always looked "quite old fashioned"! That's quite OK.
A wonderful bit of circular serendipity. It is marvellous that figures on the open market end up with someone for whom they have added meaning—bringing back your own and a remembrance of Clive.
ReplyDeleteRegards, James
HI James - I guess so - it has also brought it home to me that, whatever the power of internet-based advertising and selling systems, this has been an enormously long shot. I didn't know the original auction included any of my old soldiers, simply because the auction photos were disgracefully inadequate, but then I'm old enough not to expect to be fully aware of this, and I came across the eBay listing by a total fluke, since I was looking for something else.
DeleteI'm pleased to have them, no argument, and I'm glad to see that Clive looked after them! I think the thing that maybe causes me most disquiet about this whole episode is that, however much we may lament the initiative being taken by agencies looking for personal gain, this is a disappearing market. Maybe there were a few windfall prices, but overall it is going to be a major problem to move such a large quantity of such a niche market, and the agents are going to have to work very hard to make very much out of it.
I look at it this way Tony. The figures have been paid for (years ago). Oggling, painting and or using them has provided great utility to me. So, the combination of depreciation and utility derived means that 'no commercial value' is a reasonable price! :)
DeleteMy preferred route would be for someone in the family or close friend to become interested and to take them so further pleasure can be had from someone for whom they have meaning.
It don't greatly matter when one is 'worm food' though does it?!