Napoleonic, WSS & ECW wargaming, with a load of old Hooptedoodle on this & that


Friday, 15 March 2024

Hooptedoodle #458 - Le Mot Juste


 There are words which don't quite mean what they originally meant, or what I think they used to mean. It's complicated. What is understood depends a lot on the perception of the listener, general usage varies from place to place, and the relentless churning of fashion will also result in there being subjective differences between people of different ages. 

It's all fine; like everything else, language moves along (though I miss a few old friends, and there are many things which I no longer dare say, since the meaning has changed).

A few evenings ago, I agreed with my son that we would go out later on to pick up a takeaway from the fish & chip shop in the village. We went along there about 9pm. The shop was quiet; since our order included a scratch-built pizza, we had to wait about 10 minutes. Two middle-aged couples came into the shop, very pleasant, maybe a little loud (drink had been taken, but nothing unseemly). I would guess they were visitors - North of England accents (I am something of an expert on the North of England), and they got into a slightly complicated exchange with the counter staff, all around the products and terminology you find in chip shops, which vary from area to area. Best not order anything unless you know what it is.

I got briefly involved in offering views on exactly what is the meat constituent of a scary local speciality known as the "King Rib"; which I think is a slab of ultra-processed pork heavily flavoured with something like BBQ sauce. Not recommended, anyway, except after about 4 pints.

Once the preparation of the orders was under way, one of the ladies - very polite, dressed up a little for an evening out, silk scarf, all that - said to me,

"If you don't mind my saying so, you look very..."

...and she paused for a fraction of a second, while she searched for an appropriate word - it seemed quite a long fraction of a second...

"...dapper!" she said, "Yes, that's it: dapper!"

I wasn't at all offended, neither did I take the comment any more seriously than she meant it, though I have to say that I was surprised, for a number of reasons.

(1) People who know me will be aware that my mode of dress is usually warm and comfortable, and, though I hope I do not look completely disreputable, "dapper" is a long way down the list of words I would choose myself. Last time I wore a suit, for example, was at a funeral, and I'm confident the next time I wear one will also be at a funeral, unless I have to appear in court in the interim.

(2) "Dapper" is rather an old-fashioned word, and I associate it with gentle put-downs of older men attempting to dress up. Originally it was used to describe someone who was making a genuine effort to be up-to-date, and I suspect that in the US, for example, it may still have that meaning. I am confident that this lady was not trying to take the piss out of a complete stranger, so this is a usage thing. In a similar vein, if I ever said to a friend that he was looking "with it", he would certainly be quite an elderly friend, and my comment would be (deliberately) an example of British sardonicism, since even I know that nobody says this any more.

(3) "Dapper" has thus, in the UK, become a word used in connection with old men. It is not offensive, but it is one of a number of words which, though generally positive, might be viewed with a little apprehension. If the lady had, for example, stated that I looked "very clean", I might have been nonplussed by the implied parenthesis, "[all things considered]" or similar.

Anyway, I thanked her. Thinking she might have been impressed by my cloth cap, I said something oafish about starting to dress like my father, and we parted with lighthearted laughter. Oh, what fun. The truth is that I had intended to wear my fisherman's beanie hat, which is much warmer, but couldn't find it, so defaulted to the old bunnet. If I had worn my beanie I doubt if I would have been considered dapper. I might have been told I looked like a pile of dirty laundry.

When I first lived here, my next door neighbour, Old George, who was well into his 90s, used to wear a blazer and smart tie on Sundays when he went to the church in Whitekirk, and his trouser-creases were freshly ironed, and his shoes were polished to a frazzle. Now, he was dapper.

 
Battered King Rib supper - don't ask


 


25 comments:

  1. - 'He's a nice old man, isn't he?'
    - (nods) 'He's very - clean'
    ( that's not by any chance old Wilfred in the picture, is it?
    I'll give the King Rib supper a miss!

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    1. Every time you decide not to have the King Rib you'll live an extra day - better start as soon as possible? The photo looks more like Old George, in fact.

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  2. I wonder what Al Murray would say anent this 'King Rib' thing...

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    1. Just the thing for his air fryer? There are theories that a King Rib is merely a device to absorb its own weight of cooking oil. There is another that a King Rib is actually a serving of roadkill. I have no view on any of this.

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  3. The King Rib is definitely roadkill.
    The tyre marks on the top are definitely Bridgestone Turanza T005.

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    1. Well spotted Matt - you are good at this stuff.

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  4. From the song Any Old Iron: you look neat, talk about a treat, you look dapper from your napper to your feet, dressed in style with a brand new tile & you father's old green tie on

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  5. I don't associate dapper with old men, but I do associate it with an attempt to dress 'correctly' in a way that shows both pride in yourself and respect to others. God, that sound POMPOUS! What I mean is that nowadays there are vanishingly few dress 'conventions' and people dress in a way that they feel expresses what they want to say. This is a good thing - as a somewhat antiquated publication would out it, although I can't figure out what some people are trying to say. So 'dapper' to me suggests you've hit the mark in trying to dress in a smart way iaw a convention i.e., are showing to people you've taken care over your appearance which left to your own device you might not bother with. Confused? I am...
    PS, that's not you in the photo is it?

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    1. Thanks Rob. Interesting. I wouldn't take issue with most of that, but consider the following: have you ever heard a woman described as "dapper"? Would a young, well-dressed person appreciate being regarded as "dapper"? If not, why not?

      It's not the word, it's the usage that evolves; I believe the literal (?) meaning of dapper is as you describe, but - in the same way as "rakish", or "dandified" (which do not have the same meaning), it is an old-fashioned word and - in the UK at least - has assumed a faintly satirical overtone, and is mostly used for effect.

      As far as dress and self respect goes, I have been retired for a good many years, and I live in a very rural location. Particularly during lockdown, I could go for weeks without meeting anyone from outside my immediate family. Naturally one does not wish to slide into an uncivilised life, but I could dress entirely as I wished. I am confident that I was never dapper at any time, though my self-respect was intact. Maybe what I wanted to say was "yes, I'm warm enough, thank you; if you don't like my appearance, please close the gate behind you".

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    2. No - that isn't me in the photo!

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    3. I think the lady in the chip shop was probably commenting on my cap, which is definitely an old man's cap (at least it is since Beckham stopped wearing them).

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  6. The Jolly Broom Man sent a comment, which arrived by an unusually convoluted route, but I treasure it anyway.

    He says, "I suspect that my predilection for cravats may have pushed me from dapper into rakish. It’s a thin line."

    He reminds me that on the chip shop evening, I was wearing one of my "Buff" neck scarves - the one with the llama pattern. You think maybe this was an accidental style statement?

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    1. This has now got me picturing you and JBM wargaming with your cravats on, brandy balloons in hand. There may be an attractive blonde in evening dress lounged decorously on the arm of JBM's chair and a white horse in the room for some reason.
      As to more prosaic matters, my understanding of the modern Scots leid, is that the addition of chips to any comestible converts the latter into a "supper". Am a right or a meringue?

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    2. Now you know very well that my domestic wargaming kit involves a 25-year-old Rohan fleece jacket, my red coat-of-many-pockets, indispensable for Zoom games - dice in the right hip, order chits in the left, loss counters in the inside breast pocket. Strictly functional. No airs and/or graces. The brandy and the cravats are a different matter.

      As for the blonde lady with JBM, I assumed that was Mme JBM. The white horse is interesting - can you see it as well? I wondered about it - is it yours?

      Scottish chip shops - you are quite correct, son. Fish and chips is a "fish supper", or you ask for a "single fish" if you don't want the chips. Here in the East of Scotland, if you say nothing to the contrary, they will offer brown sauce with your chips. In Glasgow, as with most of the North of England, as far as I know, vinegar is the default. I am a vinegar man myself.

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  7. What did the ZZ Top song say? Everyone loves a sharp dressed man.

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    1. Indeed, that's what it said. Here it is

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wRHBLwpASw

      I should have been in the video, with my llama scarf and my cloth bunnet.

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  8. Holy Cow! That looks gross Tony.

    As for Dapper, I'd take that.

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    1. I agree about the King Rib Lee. The odd "treaded" appearance mentioned by Matt is because, underneath the batter, the slab of uncertain meat is actually moulded to give a childish similarity to the appearance of a "sheet" of actual pork ribs - though only a person with very poor eyesight or a person with a high threshold of nausea would be deceived.

      Dapper is as dapper does, I guess.

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  9. I must admit that I would be more than happy to be described as dapper… It would certainly be an improvement on shambling 🤣
    That battered King Rib looks brutal…

    All the best. Aly

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    1. Thanks Aly - hope things are good with you.

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  10. 'Have you ever heard a woman described as "dapper"?' - based on the word dapper's original meaning when English and German were the same language, as indicated by the meaning of the German equivalent 'tapfer' - something like 'stalwart' - probably not. I would have said dapperness involves attire that is suited to the occasion, well-fitting and well-maintained rather than 'with-it'.

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    1. Modern Dutch word dapper means brave or courageous, apparently, and Middle English daper meant pretty or smart, so I guess you takes your pick. All known derivations are generally positive, though! Modern concepts such as hidden or satirical meanings are probably too fleeting to be considered all that seriously.

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  11. All I kept thinking about reading your post was Dapper Dan Hair Pomade, that George Cloony's character Ulysess Everett Mcgill used as his hair treatment in Oh Brother Where art Thou.

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    1. Dapper Dan - I never use any other brand.

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