Napoleonic, WSS & ECW wargaming, with a load of old Hooptedoodle on this & that


Tuesday 27 August 2019

Hooptedoodle #340 - The Elephant That Never Forgets


Thread A

Years ago, I opened a savings account with the old Northern Rock Building Society (of Newcastle), because (as I recall) at the time they were paying reasonable interest (remember interest, by the way?). Sometime thereafter Northern Rock was taken over by Virgin Money, and for about 5 years now I have been thinking to myself, why do I keep this account open? It doesn't pay me anything, so as you would notice, and its utility to me is not worth all the junk mail - it's just a sort of float fund. Each month I pondered this briefly, decided that I should do something about it, and then forgot about it for another month.


Now I am informed that Virgin Money has become part of Clydesdale Bank, which cues up a bit of personal history.


Thread B

In (I think) 1979 I returned from a family holiday and we were unpacking when the doorbell rang. On the step there was a gentleman in a suit, who handed me a sealed letter for which I had to sign. It was notification from the John Lewis Partnership that they had started legal proceedings to recover the money I owed them. The holiday was suddenly a distant memory. What on earth was this?

All a bit unfortunate really - I had moved house a couple of years before, and we had had our new kitchen refitted and modernised - my architect, my tradesmen, but the furniture and equipment came from John Lewis. Since the other parties in this project had no interest in waiting for payment, I spread the pain a little by taking out an 18-month credit agreement (what used to be called hire purchase) for part of my bill to JLP. That way I could still do other things, such as eat, and take my family on holiday. That's the way it was done in those days.

I never thought any more about it. Sadly, my bankers (Clydesdale) made a little mistake, and terminated the monthly payments a year early. The date was correct, but the year was wrong. Well, they were only a bank, for goodness sake.

When John Lewis realised that I had done the dirty on them, they began sending me letters about the balance - there were a number of these, getting progressively more assertive and showing more red headings. Again, another small misfortune. They sent these letters to the wrong address - this was because my previous address was still held on my shopping account with them, though the hire purchase agreement correctly showed the new address, which was also where they had delivered the kitchen fittings. Just another bad break.

Of course we got things sorted out fairly quickly. No lasting damage, except that I had a dodgy credit rating for a few years, through no fault of my own. Lewis's got their money, our kitchen was very satisfactory. Thank you very much.

At the end of the episode I requested a meeting with my Clydesdale Bank branch manager, just to ensure everything was cleared up. You will find this hard to believe, but apparently said manager (Mr Harper - I remember him very well) misunderstood why we were having the meeting, and in fact misunderstood what had happened - I am convinced that his staff did not tell him. Not only was there no apology forthcoming, Mr Harper was very sanctimonious about the whole thing (well, he was obviously a busy man, and I was unforgivably young at the time), and he informed me that he would take it as a personal favour if I could avoid such occurrences in future, and ensure that my finances were kept in order. I regret to say that the discussion became a little heated, I closed my accounts at Clydesdale on the spot, and promised Mr Harper that I would never do business with his bank again, neither would I countenance any of my friends or family doing so. Mr Harper, for his part, looked at his watch and announced that he was delighted to hear it.


This is now laughable in the extreme, since there can be hardly anyone left alive who worked for Clydesdale in 1979, but I see no reason to change my views. A promise is a promise - in the retail banking business, at least the customers must strive for a little integrity. I have now closed my Virgin accounts. I refuse to be associated with Clydesdale, even by transfer of ownership, even after all these years.

No-one will notice, of course, and if they did they wouldn't care, but it matters to me. One has to be true to oneself.

Stuff them.


15 comments:

  1. I friend of mine, a Kiwi now domiciled in the UK (or Germany; he has that choice), got a job thirty years ago in the UK evaluating computer software that had emerged from the old Soviet Union, with a view to on-selling.

    Owing to the inferiority of the hardware the Soviet space programme had to use, they had developed methods of their own to produce very fast, high-performance software. The UK firm's developers were looking to ways to adapt this software to UK commercial needs.

    The researchers advised the CEO of the company that the software was pretty efficient, all right, but needed some work to make it useable in a commercial environment. Foaming at the mouth the CEO insisted that the company had to start making profits from sales before any development work was to be undertaken.

    My friend's comment: 'This will guarantee that the UK economy will remain on the bones of its arse for a long time to come'.

    A hell of a lot of business people fail to grasp the elementary fact that the customer is the boss, not the shareholder, must less the bottom line.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alas, in the post-Friedman, post-Thatcher world, banks, like all other forms of commercial enterprise, are assumed to exist only to make as much money as possible. And never mind next week, we are talking about NOW.

      A director who is paid vast amounts of money, but who expects to have a limited term in office, is not interested in the long term - he wishes only to cover his ass and do favours for his chums as long as it lasts - be seen to be making money when the shareholders are watching, relying on spin and dodgy audits to get by as long as possible.

      It's a little like the strategic philosophy of a head of state, really, isn't it (choose your example)? To blazes (literally) with the environment, or long-term sustainability - let's party now, and accuse objectors of being jealous, or unpatriotic. Let's burn the house down to keep warm. With luck, we won't be around to pick up the tab.

      Delete
    2. Sadly, I find your analysis of current Western business practices and Governments to be entirely too accurate.

      Delete
  2. Used to have a Royal Bank of Scotland account - originally from the old William's and Glynn's account from 1974. Bought Around 2007 they made a few quite expenive 'mistakes' some of which were based on the bank being incompetant, others based on the bank being plain greedy - I finished up with 3 separate Ombudsman complaints in my favour, they lost a 33 year customer. They don't realise it do they?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RBS really did become dreadful - I had a few years experience of their providing specialist services for a Trust I managed, and they were simply incompetent - I never saw the same people twice, and the people I did see were ignorant of the law and of their own business, and didn't care a lot, since they were hoping to get promoted into a half-decent job anytime soon.

      If a bank has to pay a fine for some misdemeanor, or some offence against ethical standards, what is the chance of preventing the cost simply being taken from the customer funds? I ask only out of innocent ignorance. [Award-winning interim finance directors need not bother replying, thanks]

      Long term customers are uninteresting - the staff score brownie points by generating new business (most of which is fake), but the old customer is just a nuisance.

      I suspect that what is wrong is not so much the perception of the importance of the customer, but the entire concept of why banks think they are in business. They don't need savings money, thanks, because there is nothing constructive they wish to do with it.

      I have given up with RBS now - for 6 years I have been trying to get them to close some residual accounts, which contain only pence, but they are unable to do this. How many of their other customers are also fake? Who's getting paid for the inflated numbers?

      Without any wish to dramatise, they actually do make me sick. In my youth, there were a number of occasions when my bank of the day could usefully have helped me through some difficult period. Now that I am older and have less commitments, and am (I guess) rather wealthier, they constantly badger me with offers of financial advice which I do not need (why would I listen?), or savings contracts which yield nothing. I am now their friend, in a strange sort of way.

      Lucky me.

      Delete
  3. At an individual level they don't care, unless of course you are a trillionaire (remember when millionaires were considered rich?)

    Still, to my mind, the only real option is to cease doing business and share the word.

    ReplyDelete
  4. When I was young, I feared and loathed bank managers. Now that I am older, I rely on them because a large part of my retirement investments are in banks, which is all rather ironic.
    Otherwise all I can offer is this small piece of Canadian wit on the banking profession.
    https://binged.it/2zqeiSU

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I like it a lot - thanks for this, Mike.

      Delete
  5. Wow, you got to see an actual Bank Manager? Those really were the days, weren't they, when you could be patronised by someone in a bank who had some banking experience?
    Nowadays you would just get to see some poor individual who would roll out the stock phrase "All I can do is apologise..." This, incidentally, is absolutely true - if you get to talk to someone face to face, or even on the telephone, it will be someone who has no idea where, when or why the problem occurred and will have even less authority or idea how to correct it. Mushroom principle writ large.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have nothing against the actual people who work in banks - I've had a number of good friends who did this - in fact I have had two wives who did this at some time.

      When I originally asked to speak to Mr Harper, the counter staff seemed to be very apprehensive about the idea, and tried to talk me out of it. I assumed at the time that they were scared of some comeback for themselves when the Big Man heard of my unhappiness. On reflection, I think they were just scared of speaking to him at all. That entire branch is now an All Bar One dining pub now, which is a bit disconcerting. Hallelujah.

      Delete
    2. No, sorry if I sounded bitter. I worked in a bank for a little over 30 years before escaping into an honest trade in 2005. Now I'm annoyed that it took me so long to get out. And nowadays it's got even worse for the poor beggars who actually 'interface' with (we used to serve) customers. I'm convinced that it's to prevent any possibility of customers receiving a decent service that might cost the bank money.

      Delete
    3. It all became a bit toxic - even before 2008. I believe the reason that "alternative" UK banks like Tesco and Sainsbury's and Marks and Spencer became accepted is because they were not the same old bunch, and were offshoots of organisations which had some recent history of customer orientation. Of course, in reality the banking services were provided under the covers by exactly the same old same old, and after they gained some degree of autonomy, many of the senior staff in these new banks were people who had been fired from or otherwise marginalised in the exact same old same old.

      Delete
  6. Replies
    1. Thank you Ray - I emphasise this is not a strop, or any other exhibition of ridiculous intemperance - I've been waiting 40 years to score a point back! OK, it's a very small point, and no-one will care less, but it's all mine, I shall savour it, and I WON IN THE END! HAHAHAHAHA....

      Delete